Hi, Nicole, thank you so much for coming to sit for an interview with the Verdict. This interview will be for our second issue, and we’re super excited to talk with you about your role as the student body president for this upcoming year.
Nicole: Of course! Thanks for having me.
We’ll go ahead and jump straight into the questions. Why did you choose to pursue a career in law, and what about the law appeals to you?
Two main things brought me to law school. First, I was born in Lima, Peru, and we moved to the U.S. when I was seven. Going through the immigration process with my family was a big part of my childhood. It felt like this impossibly complex, intricate, and nuanced system, and I never understood how ordinary people could possibly navigate it by themselves. I liked the idea of getting to be the sort of person that has the skills to help someone navigate a world like that.
Second—when I was younger and self-conscious about speaking with an accent—I forced myself to join public speaking activities, which led me to mock trial. It’s basically my sport; I’ve competed and/or coached it for the last decade. I love reading a case for the first time and seeing all the ways you can parse the facts to build compelling stories. And I love the challenge of framing narratives to the factfinder, in hopes of making it all resonate.
What inspired you to join Student Senate?
I moved to New York as a 1L not knowing anyone—and I was set on the idea that I could find my people and make myself a home here, a little corner of the CLS world that I could call mine. I wanted to do literally everything in my power to make that happen. I joined Senate as a 1L in hopes it’d help me find my place. And I’ve stayed in it because I love being involved, and I love getting to use my knowledge to help people navigate the law school world.
Now that you’re getting close to the end of your time as a law student, what are your post-law school plans?
I came to law school to do trial work; I’ve remained adamant about that hope. After law school, I’ll be clerking in California, then returning to the litigation firm I was at this summer. I’m not sure I’ll remain in the private sector forever; one thing I’d love to do someday is to be a public defender.
You and I were in the same section as 1Ls, and it seemed as though you were involved in almost everything. As we all know, 1L can be a very hectic time. What types of things were you involved in during your first year at Columbia?
I think your characterization is accurate—I did try to do everything, and it was by design. While I would never advise anyone to do as much as I did, I also have no regrets: I got involved in Senate and some affinity groups, including LaLSA and Outlaws. I joined a journal. I tried out for a specialized moot court, and we competed in Sweden. It was tons of fun!
That sounds like an incredibly busy schedule. Do you have any regrets about any of the extracurricular activities you did as a 1L? Did you feel like it was manageable?
I wouldn’t describe it as manageable, but I did enjoy myself. I have no real clue how law school admissions work, I think of it like this: They look at your application and they think about what each person uniquely provides to the CLS community. I think everyone’s here for a reason, but not everyone’s here for the same reason. Some of us are here because we shine as students, researchers, or future academics. I think I’m here in part to devote myself to building community, and to make this space a little less intimidating and a little more welcoming for future years to come.
Looking back to your 1L year, did you have a favorite 1L class?
Torts! A big reason why I loved it so much is because of Professor Huang, who’s incredible. He never seemed to be looking for niche, abstract takeaways from a footnote from a note case. It was all about making the law simple. He’d tell us to make the “aunt and uncle arguments.” I loved it because it makes you take what sometimes feels very academic, and make it make sense in the “real world.” And I think there’s no better way to ensure that you really get something than to prepare to debate it at the dinner table.
My other favorite class was Legal Methods with Professor Ginsburg. It’s essentially a drafting simulation where you draft a regulation, then interpret another group’s regulation as an agency, and then adjudicate another group’s regulation as a judge. It really takes you through the whole lawmaking process. It helped answer one of my big questions coming into law school, which was “why can’t they just make laws simple and make sense?” I learned that you can really do your very best, but the written law won’t always stay current as societies’ needs evolve, or our priorities evolve, or when a new and unforeseen situation comes up (which happens all the time).
2L year comes with a lot of changes. How did your life change from 1L year to 2L year?
2L is where I felt the real strain of trying to do everything. Between classes, ramping up my affinity group participation, becoming Senate VP, doing an externship, and joining CLR, it was a lot, especially in the fall. I don’t regret trying to make the most of every opportunity. But it’s sort of sad when you realize all of a sudden that you’re in a class that you were once really excited about, but haven’t had the mental space to give it all the attention that you wanted to. While I have some sadness about things like that, at the same time it was incredible to get to step into new roles alongside the Class of 2025. It was a joy to see so many of my loved ones come into their element as leaders, as community builders, and as nurturers. It felt like law school was a world that we could make it our own. There’s something really lovely about that.
It seems like between balancing classes, affinity group leadership, and the Law Review, you had a lot on your plate. All of those things can be incredibly difficult, and finding stability seems like it could’ve been a major challenge. How did you find balance between all of your commitments?
It was a struggle, and I often felt like I was “getting by” more than achieving balance. I made it work by doing my best to prioritize the things that I never wanted to put on the back burner. My biggest lesson from the year was to edit your schedule and leave space to be a human being: cooking dinner, seeing friends, going on walks. I didn’t initially build that into my schedule, and I would’ve been much happier if I had.
You indicated that there were a handful of things that you picked up during your 2L year, joining CLR being one of those things. At this school, CLR is a very prestigious organization, but it certainly seems like it can be a lot of work. Have you enjoyed your time on the Law Review?
It’s been great. My writing and editing skills are a lot sharper now than they were, and I attribute much of that to my time at the Law Review. I also think that being a 3L and watching the 2Ls come in and sort of get their bearings has been exciting, because they’re fantastic and have grown so much already. I also appreciate that CLR has helped me find a community of close friends—people that I knew from class, but didn’t know very well before we started working together.
Now that you’re starting your 3L year, is there anything in particular that you’re looking forward to?
I'm really excited about the classes that I’m taking this year! I didn’t have a ton of luck with getting into seminars as a 2L, so getting to take a good variety of paper- and discussion-based classes this year makes me happy.
You mentioned finding ways to take a break and get outside the law school to do things you really enjoy. The law school can feel like a bubble, so do you have any recommendations for finding a reprieve?
For sure! I feel like my mental health is at its best when I’ve spent a healthy amount of time outside of the campus area. That can sometimes be a challenge, because I live pretty close to the law school. But it can be nice to just see other parts of New York, even just for the day. Even just once every few weekends to give yourself a little bit of a psychic breather.
For example, I love heading north to 129th to a coffee shop called Dear Mama. It’s one of my favorite places to spend the day, whether to read or catch up with a friend.
Another thing I like to do, on days that I can carve out a full day of free time, is take the 1 train to 225th Street and walk all the way down the length of Manhattan along Broadway, which is about 14 miles. It’s lots of fun, and a great way to get your steps in! I also think it’s a good reminder that the city has so much more to offer than a law school education.
Turning to your time on Senate. You were thrust into an incredibly difficult position in your first few weeks of being the student body President, with the first wave of arrests at the student encampment coming shortly after your appointment. As we move into this new school year, with the possibility of continued protests still looming on our conscience, are there any particular areas of student concerns that are on your mind?
Fundamentally, every student should feel safe on campus. I think Columbia owes that to its students. That hasn’t been the case at plenty of points this past year; plenty of our fellow students have felt uncomfortable or unsafe around campus, and that’s heartbreaking. I think it should be a top priority of the school to help students regain that feeling of safety.
I also believe that student free expression is of utmost importance, and that student advocacy—and dissent—should be something that’s celebrated at Columbia, because it makes our community stronger and it allows us to learn from each other. I want Columbia to be the sort of place that’s known for celebrating different voices. Again, that hasn’t always been in the case this past year, and I’d love to see that change.
The school can address several of these fronts through similar routes. For example, it can do so by keeping lines of communication meaningfully open between the administration and the student body, taking student feedback to heart, and proactively communicating policy changes the University may be considering, particularly when they impact student safety or expression. But the bottom line is this: Students’ safety and freedom of expression can and must coexist at Columbia.
During your time as student senate vice president and your 2L year, you led the charge on putting together many of the Student Senate–sponsored events. Do you have plans for other events this year that will help bring unity to the law school?
I'm no longer chairing our Social Committee, but our new VP has some fantastic ideas for how we can put on events that are as exceptional as possible, while keeping costs to students as low as we can. We’re working to ensure that we are creating spaces where we can be friends and not just students for a while. But I don’t want to spoil the events we’ve got in the works—so stay tuned!
There is a growing movement at the law school for students to receive credit or payment for their work on student journals. Would you care to comment on such a proposal?
I wholeheartedly believe that students deserve fair compensation for the immense work they put in—work from which the University’s reputation benefits immensely. I also know that many of our peer law schools have solved the challenge of how to find ways to give academic credit for journal work. I hope that we will follow their lead, and I’m happy to continue the advocacy on this.
One last question about student senate: Are there any particular projects or initiatives that you are excited about promoting this upcoming year?
Our hope is to continue our efforts to facilitate a great community and culture at CLS. Senate historically does this in several ways: planning high-quality, low-cost events; setting up pro bono and community involvement initiatives like our blood drives and spring caravan support; offering funding to club events that make free lunch possible; contributing to Orientation programming; and so much more.
Additionally, each year brings unique challenges to which we’d like to be responsive: This year, facilities renovations are big themes so far, and we’re glad to already be working with Student Services on these fronts to minimize the impacts of construction on the CLS student experience. And, of course, we’re delighted to be working with Dean Abebe as he enters his first year as a member of the exceptional CLS community.
Thank you so much for taking the time to interview with us! Before we let you go: Is there any advice that you have to give to 1Ls, 2L, your fellow 3Ls, or anybody at the law school?
I truly believe that at law school, you can do anything, but you can’t do everything. During 2L, I struggled to make difficult decisions about doing many things that were interesting and cool, because I just could not give my all to everything all the time. Prioritizing is something I could’ve been better about, and it’s absolutely something that I think students benefit from, because it lets them be people outside of the law school bubble—and, therefore, to care for themselves as people and not just as students. We really are so much more than law students!
This interview was conducted by Jacob Sarasin, 3L, and has been edited for length, clarity, and content.